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This article was co-written by Edwin Ong from the AHN Ventures team and Lennie Zhu, who is the Founder of 01 Labs, a product studio that builds products with early-stage software companies serving creators (media, entertainment, social), small businesses and independents. She has worked with startups such as HIFI (acquired by Block), F*** You Pay Me, and more. One of AHN Ventures’ portfolio founders, Amartya Jha, was the lead interviewer. Amartya is the Co-founder & CEO of CodeAnt AI, a DevTool that helps companies find and auto-fix code issues and security vulnerabilities used by small teams all the way to large unicorns.
In this edition, we had the honor of hosting an exclusive advisory session between Kun Gao, co-founder and former CEO of Crunchyroll, and Amartya Jha of Codeant AI. For those who don’t know, Crunchyroll is the leading anime streaming service with over 13 million subscribers as of 2024, and was last valued at $1.5 billion when it was sold to Sony in 2020. Nowadays, Kun works on two new companies that he co-founded: GGWP, an AI-powered game moderation platform; and Forge, which rewards gamers within and out-of-game prizes for the data they generate through gaming.
We are excited to share 7 hidden lessons for founders from our conversation with Kun.
1. The consumer products that succeed are the ones that go viral – and that can be hard to predict
One of Kun’s early insights was that consumer apps with baked-in virality tend to be the ones that work out. Examples of built-in viral features are share buttons, “invite a friend/collaborator features,” or content that can be easily reposted.
However, consumer behavior can be notoriously difficult to predict. Unless you have superior product sense like Steve Jobs, your best bet is to take your best guess, then ship quickly and avoid getting caught up in minute details. If your product truly has value, people will use it even if it isn’t polished. Need proof? Check out the screenshot below of what Crunchyroll looked like in 2006.
Kun: “One of the lessons I learned from that experience is that you really don’t know what the consumer mindset is. You can have a guess, but with pure consumer experiences, it’s better to just try something, throw it against the wall, and see if it sticks. Then, you can collect the data, iterate, and see what works and what doesn’t.
We developed the first version of Crunchyroll in about a month. We put it out there and shared it with our friends. They started using it, and pretty soon we had hundreds, then thousands of users. At the end of the day, it’s about making something really engaging that can capture an audience and get them to virally spread it. Those kinds of consumer products just inherently grow. So my advice would be to think about how to build products that inherently have virality built in.”
2. Build something that solves your own problems
The advantage of building something for yourself is that you will have at least one user out of the gate, and likely a few others since you likely have some friends with similar issues. Furthermore, you’ll be able to understand the customers’ needs because *you* are the customer. For Crunchyroll, this allowed them to cut out hiring product people and only hire engineers at the start
Kun: “With Crunchyroll, we were trying to solve a problem that we personally had. Every Thursday, Naruto would come out on TV in Japan, and it would be only accessible in the US on unreliable torrent websites. We just wanted a place where we could watch Naruto at 6 p.m. every Thursday after work.
We knew we could get at least a starting set of users because we had that problem, and we were our own consumers…. We also knew we could get all of our friends to use it because we knew they were experiencing the same problem. And so we built Crunchyroll.”
3. Experiment relentlessly until you perfect your conversion funnel
What is often talked about when monetization is on the agenda is “What monetization model makes sense for my company?” Subscriptions, one-time purchases, ad revenue, freemium…the list goes on. But what gets less airtime yet is arguably even more important is how to optimize your conversion funnel. While there is no glory in experimenting with things like button placement, CTA copy, and 1 vs. 3-step payment flows, those kinds of nitty-gritty decisions are exactly what separate “businesses with potential” from the real moneymakers.
Kun: “Before [we started offering paid subscriptions], we already had a decent amount of users, around a few million. When we flipped the switch to premium content, around 10,000 people converted to paid, which is really low. We thought we would get 50,000, but we only got 10,000 people to convert to paid. The rest stayed on as free users. So then we had to figure out why more people weren’t converting.
We ran some tests on alternative business models. We tested charging per episode, and even some rental models. Those tests didn’t perform that well, so we decided to double down and optimize our subscription model.
To tackle [conversion], we basically annotated everything on the site and figured out what users were clicking, what they were looking at, and which buttons converted better. Should we start with a free trial? If it’s a free trial, should it be seven days or four? The size of the icons—we basically tested everything, especially in the first year… Over time, we were able to convert the majority of the audience to become paid subscribers.”
4. Ride societal waves in culture and technology
It’s important for every company to have an answer to the question “Why now?” What was not true before, that is now true and enables the product to succeed? This could be something technological or societal. In the case of Crunchyroll, Twitch, and YouTube, the explosion of video streaming was a major driver for those platforms to reach the dizzying levels of success they have today.
Kun: “Part of what separated us was that we were in the right place at the right time. If you look at all the successful video platforms today—YouTube, Twitch, Crunchyroll—they all started at basically the same time, around the 2004 to 2006 period. You kind of needed to start during that time to be successful.
Within that time frame, there were also a lot of competitors we were competing with. Platforms like Stage Six, Veoh, and Joost were trying to go after the same space and opportunity. Speed was really important because there was a land grab for distribution at that time. When I say distribution, I mean the proliferation of consumer devices besides the PC from 2006 to 2007, all the way until the early 2010s. Because of our speed, we were able to build these platforms before everyone else and ride that wave of device growth. We were one of the first launch partners on PlayStation alongside Netflix. Being able to build on new platforms with a product engineering focus first allowed us to outgrow and out-distribute others in the space.”
5. The best companies expand their markets or create new ones
Today, Crunchyroll has over 13 million subscribers. There were a lot of external factors that drove the massive growth in the popularity of anime, including the pandemic, but Crunchyroll itself played a major part in making anime more mainstream because it made it accessible to Western audiences.
Kun: “The thing that surprised me most was that our TAM (Total Addressable Market) ended up being much bigger than we expected. I would project that we would maybe hit 200,000 subscribers. That’s it. Then when we actually reached 200,000 subscribers, we thought maybe we’d get to a million. And then when we got to a million, we thought maybe we’d get to 3 million. The growth itself has really surprised even us. Today, it’s the largest pure vertical play among all the content verticals out there. Initially, because we didn’t expect our TAM to be so big, our approach was to super-serve our audience and do way more than just streaming, which we eventually did, but it just continued to grow even beyond our expectations.”
6. Get creative about how to finance your startup
Many founders’ minds jump immediately to venture funding when they consider how to support their companies. But raising venture money can be a long and difficult path, and it’s not always the right choice for every startup. Timing is everything, and bringing in outside capital before establishing product-market fit can be a mistake, driving founders to pivot into oblivion. Kun gave us a look behind the curtain at how Crunchyroll funded itself before venture money, which included user donations, partner investments, and- yes, credit cards. While taking on significant credit card debt may not be recommended, staying open-minded about where your financing could come from is.
Kun: [Before we were profitable, we financed Crunchyroll with] venture money, and maxed out our credit cards before that. For a period of time, we also accepted donations. Before we raised VC funding, we had pretty hefty bandwidth bills because video streaming was very expensive. At some point, we realized that we couldn’t sustain the site. At the same time, we couldn’t directly charge users because we didn’t own the content. That was the motivation behind accepting donations. To give the users some incentive to donate, we built a very sticky social product where users could create an account, participate in forums, and chat with other anime fans. Anyone who donated would get a star next to their name so people would know that the person donated. It was an appeal to social status and social proof. That was enough to offset some of the bandwidth bills in the early days before we had venture funding.
I [also went to one of] our biggest content partners, the folks who license the content to us, and asked if they wanted to own a piece of the business. It made a lot of sense because if they invested, they would also have a vested interest in the platform and could capture more of the value that their shows were generating. It was a win-win. We took in about a million dollars, which was enough to bridge us to the break-even point.
7. As an Asian founder, take advantage of your inherent cultural strengths
Asian founders starting businesses in Western countries should not underestimate their ability to globalize their businesses by capitalizing on Asian markets, which they may be much better positioned to do than their non-Asian counterparts. Fundamental cultural context that you may not even acknowledge your grasp can help you succeed overseas.
Kun: “With Crunchyroll, we obviously worked a lot with Japan. I think that because I’m Asian, they trusted me more. At the end of the day, it was also about understanding and appreciating their value system, which is very different from the US. In the US, it’s really about the value proposition. In Asia, it’s much more about relationships and trust, so we really leaned into that. Maybe part of that was influenced by our upbringing. You can’t just show up and expect deals immediately. You need to be around, be persistent, and show them that you’re committed. But that might be a bit of a unique situation for us.”
Conclusion
Thank you to Kun Gao for the interview! If you are a gaming company looking for moderation tools, please consider checking out GGWP, and if you are a gamer wondering why you aren’t being rewarded for the mountains of data you are generating, please check out Forge!
Written by Edwin Ong and Lennie Zhu
- 10 min read
Stories
Navigating the world of law and order as an Asian American can be convoluted. However, as John D. Tran Talks about working with start-ups like AHN, overcoming industry barriers, and the power of mentorship.
A fun fact that encapsulates John’s impact is that he was the trademark attorney who helped protect and register the ASIAN HUSTLE NETWORK name back in 2019—a contribution that underscores his dedication to empowering the Asian American community.
As a Partner at the Rhema Law Group®, John has spent over 20 years working as a Registered Patent Attorney, Intellectual Property Counsel & IP litigator, driven by a mission to aid startups & emerging companies navigating the complex business world.
Finding Balance & Purpose in the Madness
In 2012, with the arrival of their boy-girl twins, John and his wife Rosalind Ong switched gears. Both seasoned lawyers at larger firms, the duo seized this joyful moment and joined forces to partner at a private law firm, Rhema Law Group, which specializes in intellectual property, business, and corporate law. While people may think being a lawyer trades much of one’s freedom for endless tedious readings into acts and regulations, John finds a nice work/life balance being a “cool” dad to twins (double the coolness), playing basketball, and being an avid sports fan, but finds ultimate enjoyment in spending time with friends and family.
Protecting the Interests of Start-Ups & Emerging Businesses
Working as a lawyer for startups can be tough, considering how new and fragile they are in the market. While his work requires a focus on quality, integrity, and community, John treats startups with extreme care and attention, prioritizing personalization and case-by-case flexibility for each of his clients. He understands that these new businesses often operate on tight budgets, but also wants his clients to recognize the importance of investing in intellectual property protection right from the start.
This is not just about legal protection—it’s an act of partnership, building relationships with the clients, getting to know who they are, and helping them grow. John said in an interview with AHN:
“With start-ups, even those backed by investors or venture capitalists, you’re usually dealing with a limited budget that needs to be responsibly allocated across various areas, such as R&D, marketing, sales, employment, and more. A good IP attorney will understand these constraints and focus on identifying the core IP of the start-up that needs to be protected from the outset while determining which IP can be addressed later.
Also, we find it important to conduct IP ‘think tank’ sessions, where we work closely with our clients to identify what protectable IP the company has and then develop an overall IP portfolio strategy. From trademarks, patents, copyrights and even trade secrets, approaching a business’s IP ensures that the start-up’s IP is properly protected at every stage of its growth. It’s incredibly rewarding to work with start-ups and emerging companies, watching them grow and mature over the years, and being a small part of their journey to success.”
John finds pride in working with primarily Vietnamese, Asian and minority-run companies. His client list ranges from the small entrepreneur with an idea to multi-million dollar manufacturers with hundreds of employees working overseas.
Building Leaders and Communities
His legal acumen has been shaped by mentorship, as he profoundly affirms his gratitude and advocacy for what mentorship has given him, “I think mentorship is so important, and I wouldn’t be where I am today without being fortunate enough to be mentored by some great people in my life, both professionally and personally.”
Above all, mentorship is not just a veteran-novice work of professional guidance, but, to John, it is a way of personal growth for everyone involved. This mindset coheres with his work ethic, where he hones his expertise (as startups can be quite a hard case to crack, your honor) while supporting their growth.
“Mentoring builds up individuals, individuals build up communities, and communities raise families, support businesses, and can become the social networks that bring people together. For me, personally, mentorship has been a valued and rewarding part of my life. My wife and I have been fortunate to mentor several individuals for over 15 years, many of whom we met while volunteering at a leadership camp for foster care and at-risk teens.”
For John, mentorship is about time, consistency, and authenticity—qualities he embodies both professionally and personally.
“One particular mentee has become a little brother to me. We have mentored Salesi since he was 12, and then he served in the Army after high school and later worked at our law firm as a paralegal. Now, we’re proud to say that he has just been accepted to law school on scholarship! He was the first in his family to graduate from college and is now on his way to becoming a lawyer. Watching him grow and being there with him through the years has been such a rewarding experience, and it truly highlights the power of mentorship.”
Navigating the Legal Landscape as an Asian American
Now, let’s get to the part where most Asian parents will be intrigued to see—being an Asian American attorney. There’s nothing that excites them more than when their kids come home and say “I want to be an attorney.” Respect, stability, and profitability—needless to say more. However, as an Asian American attorney in a predominantly white male-dominated industry, John has faced a sense of isolation and underrepresentation within the industry, forging the urge to always have to outperform himself.
“I remember the first time I appeared in court on a case—the judge looked at me, smiled, and asked if I was still in law school because I looked so young (haha). It’s that Asian curse! But thinking back now, although there have been great strides made in recent times, the legal industry is still greatly underrepresented when it comes to Asian American attorneys. In my field of intellectual property law, I primarily practice before the federal courts, which are still largely dominated by older white males. That’s just the way it is, and as an Asian American attorney, you can sometimes feel like you’re the only one and feel pressure to prove that you belong in such a competitive space.”
John has overcome them by focusing on his craft and building a reputation for doing great work. John’s advice to aspiring legal professionals all comes down to self-awareness and passion, emphasizing the importance of choosing a practice area that aligns with one’s strengths and personality, as well as the value of giving back through mentorship and community service.
“Matching your personality and skill set to a particular area of law is often overlooked. For example, if you’re an extrovert who likes to be ‘in the action’ of things, becoming a transactional attorney who drafts contracts and agreements at your desk all day may not be the best fit for you. Conversely, if you’re more of an introvert, choosing to become a litigator where you’re in court frequently and presenting oral arguments to a judge or jury may not be a good fit either… Additionally, I think serving on some non-profit organizations and local organizations are things that help provide joy & fulfillment, including what we talked about earlier regarding the power of mentorship.”
Connect With John D. Tran / Rhema Law Group®
“One thing I love about the law is that, for the most part, it is impartial. So, if you’re a good attorney doing great work, it doesn’t matter if you’re white, black, brown, or blue,, there’s no limits to what you can achieve and accomplish.”
X: @patentjt
Website: www.rhemalaw.com
Contact: jdt@rhemalaw.com | 949-852-4430
- 7 min read
News
Inspired by a career geographic shift and the late 90s nostalgia for a foreign land, Keith Dorrington and IW Group’s “Hou Yi” is an exploration of family identity, ego, and how love and care have the power to change the course of things.
Keith Dorrington, the man behind the storyline of “The Fighter,” and award-winning AAPI marketing firm IW Group have collaborated on a new movie project, which serves as his follow-up to the critically acclaimed boxing drama “The Fighter.”
In China, the film tells the story of a self-absorbed executive who unexpectedly becomes the guardian of a three-year-old orphan named Hou Yi. Despite the challenges of language and cultural differences, this unlikely duo develops a profound connection that transforms both their lives.
On “Hou Yi,” the movie broadens his cinematic ambiance, shifting from less “kicking and screaming” to a more subtle and lighter tone. However, the complexities of family and existentialist values that can be felt in “The Fighter” are still well-retained, even if there’s a perspective shift to fatherhood.
Dorrington’s partnership with the multicultural firm IW Group is one to note as the agency is known for connecting and highlighting cultures in their campaigns through impactful storytelling. Set in China, this movie marks a dynamic cross-production as Dorrington’s personal experience and the firm’s cultural expertise will meld into the rawest and most well-done cinematic universe for the audience.
Dorrington expressed, “Bringing ‘Hou Yi’ to the screen has been a deeply personal mission of mine for over two decades. I’m thrilled to take this important step in making that happen.” He will executive-produce the film based on his original screenplay. He added, “This story means the world to me because it is inspired by the events surrounding my own daughter’s adoption. While I spent time in China in my former career, I’m by no means a cultural expert. I’m excited to partner with IW Group to deliver this story in the most authentic way possible.”
As a multicultural and multigenerational organization, IW Group has long been acknowledged for their cross-cultural marketing endeavors. Boasting a strong portfolio of partnerships with Walt Disney, Warner Bros., and the mega-viral “Barbie” campaign last year, the agency will be the main force behind “Hou Yi”’s marketing strategy and cross-national account management. Moreover, this also marks their initial direction towards filmmaking, which promises an explosive celebration of culture and stories.
“As an agency that works at the intersection of Hollywood, Madison Avenue, and Asia, we feel there are some amazing untapped opportunities in his current media landscape,” said Bill Imada, co-founder and chairman of IW Group and 2024 AAF Advertising Hall of Fame inductee, who serves as a producer on “Hou Yi.” “With IW Group approaching our 35th anniversary next year, I felt it was time to embark on an exciting new chapter and I can’t think of a better way to begin this journey than to collaborate with a writer of Keith’s caliber to bring his powerful and inspirational story to the silver screen.”
Bill Imada, co-founder and chairman of IW Group and a 2024 AAF Advertising Hall of Fame inductee, who is also a producer on “Hou Yi,” said, “As an agency that operates at the crossroads of Hollywood, Madison Avenue, and Asia, we see incredible untapped opportunities in the current media landscape.
Telly Wong, IW Group Chief Content Officer and SVP, who is also a producer on “Hou Yi,” added, “We have two simple goals for “Hou Yi:” to produce a great film that resonates with global audiences and to explore the additional role our agency can play in the evolving world of media, entertainment, and culture. IW Group has always specialized in telling unique cultural stories in bold and innovative ways, and this new venture takes that philosophy to an exciting new level.”
- 4 min read
Stories
Paddling the world of parties and turntables, DJ Baby Yu’s story may not be in many Asian parents’ favor, who prefer more stable nine-to-five academic jobs. He talks about family expectations, the entertainment industry, the values of his “unconventional” job, and more.
We all love dancing, don’t we? Sometimes, it feels good to just let your hair down and move to the music for a bit. That’s where DJs come in, blending beats and energizing crowds from all walks of life.
Nonetheless, this job may receive quite a few skeptical and questioning frowns from Asian parents. Uncontrollable parties, unprecedented futures, and unstoppable debaucheries are what the music industry is all about, many would argue. However, DJ Baby Yu is here to bring more Asian creatives to the forefront, shattering the traditional barriers that may hinder them.
Rewind to 28 years ago, in tight-knit local college radios and nightclubs, flooded with ravers and heart-throbbing hip-hop music. Daniel Nakayama, known as Baby Yu, who made mixtapes featuring hosts like Ye, Ciara, and The Game, might be unmoored; but he knew what he was doing and that he was doing it for the fun of it all.
Asian Parents and Conventional Jobs
If the nine-to-five cyclic life is considered to be successful in many Asian households, then the fun-blasting, bass-hitting life would be considered to be one of the most unconventional career paths. “Not all of us are destined for high-paying traditional jobs,” he said. “Generally speaking, our parents weren’t supportive unless we finished school, earned a degree, and pursued a prestigious job.”
Upon the chance meeting with an old friend who happened to be DJ-ing at a house party, uninvited yet inspired, he bought a pair of turntables and records the day right after. Starting to DJ in high school and defining his career at university, he describes the universal battle of fighting for your dream, especially for someone with an immigrant background, where traditional values were the guiding star.
As a child of immigrant parents from Miyazaki, Japan, I share the growing pains experienced by many first-generation Asian children. Our parents often try to shape our futures, pushing us toward careers like doctors, nurses, or lawyers, without considering our personal interests and passions.
At the end of the day, those expectations only came from their own experiences and their desire for their children to have a happy and stable future.
However, once my parents saw me perform on TV, heard me on the radio, and received praise from their friends’ children, they understood that I had found something that made me happy. That realization was all that mattered to them.
The Mash-Ups of Highs and Lows in the Music Industry
This industry is no stranger to a bad reputation, where another rising public darling replaces the ones who don’t transform, where every part of your career move is baselessly evaluated and overblown, where the radio label could count you out if they can no longer profit from you.
It’s tough work being an artist in this competitive landscape. One may have to toe the line for mainstream appeal. Some may scream “Smash it, I’m here to do my own thing.”
Whatever approach they may choose, the Internet has given rise to the demand for artists with distinctive musical personalities. “There are no rules for how you should express yourself in life,” he says. “If people understand and believe in you, they’ll follow. If not, that’s okay—they’re not your audience. There will always be those who appreciate your art and direction. Focusing on this has helped me overcome any obstacles life throws my way.”
He Did It for the Fun and He Did It for the Asians
Despite the struggles, Daniel took a moment to reflect on what he had learned from his shows around the world, where he gets to travel to new places, meet new people, throw joyful parties, and try new things.
As I matured in the industry, I ventured into new areas, working on artist development and taking on marketing and branding projects for companies like Puff Puff in Thailand and Whims in Austin. Event planning is another passion of mine, and I particularly enjoy creating fun and unique events.
Back in Toronto, he was holding a “branded party” called Playbook Social, where he mixed “food, cocktails, karaoke and DJs.” The party sold out, seated the most versatile community in the city. Of course, if you were in the game for the right purpose, like-minded individuals will team up and recognize what you’re doing, even way before you realize it. It turns out that what he’s been doing has such a tremendous impact on the AAPI community.
There have been several times in my life when loyal supporters have come up to me and thanked me for what I do, often ending with the phrase, “You’re doing it for all the Asians!” For a while, I didn’t fully understand that sentiment. In my mind, I was doing it for myself, for the love of music, and to make everyone around me happy.
However, as I traveled and understood my cultural position in the industry, whether I was the only Asian in a room full of Hip Hop leaders or in the pop scene dominated by white people, I realized there weren’t many Asians in these spaces. Times have changed now, with K-pop gaining global popularity, but back then, it was different. Asians weren’t the creators of R&B, soul, Hip Hop, house, rock, or pop music; we were lovers of these cultures, trying to fit in.
Connect With DJ Baby Yu
Curating a unique and eventful experience is the ultimate wish of any musician. DJ Baby Yu has never been one to shy away from collaborating with rising Asian talents. His upcoming event, a collaboration project with UPRISERS, a Japanese female-owned AAPI streetwear brand, is meant to bring together great Asian talent and leaders for celebration and appreciation.
I’ve teamed up with UPRISERS, a Japanese female-owned AAPI streetwear brand, to celebrate their 5th anniversary. Other AAPI groups, such as FACE (Filipinos Advancing Creative Education) and Represent ASIAN Project, are also promoting this event. My goal is to bring together great Asian talent and leaders under one roof to celebrate each other.
This event is also one of the official events of SKAM Summer 2024, a two-day DJ and influencer weekend at the Mondrian Hotel in West Hollywood, created by Sujit Kundu of SKAM Artist (more information at https://skamartist.com/skamsummer).
“Now, I truly understand when people say, “I’m doing it for the Asians.” As a leader, I want to guide and nurture the next generations with the experiences and knowledge I’ve gained over my 28-year career, especially within the Asian community. Collaborating with Uprisers is one way to bring Asian leaders together to celebrate life and acknowledge our achievements.”
Event details:
RSVP: https://UPRISERSxSKAMSUMMERxBABYYU.eventbrite.com
Date: Monday, August 19, 2024
Time: 8 PM – Midnight (PT)
Location: Kimpton Everly Hotel, 1800 Argyle Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90028
Personal contact
Website: https://babyyu.com/
IG: @djbabyyu
- 7 min read