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March 21, 2024

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On December 15th, I had the honor to chat with Kevin Chou. Kevin is one of the foremost Asian American founders, having founded a number of gaming and web3 companies (Rally, Forte, Blocto, Gen.G, and Kabam) and currently spends his time working on Superlayer, a crypto venture studio he co-founded two years ago. Kevin also serves on the board of trustees at his alma mater UC Berkeley and notably made the largest donation to the school from an alumni under 40 years old. Without further ado:

FINDING YOUR OWN VOICE

In my research for this interview, I came across an article where Kevin said “Not working has helped me realize that by far the most important thing is finding that voice in your head that’s truly, authentically you”, but he never got around to sharing how to find your own voice, so that’s what I asked him:

One way to think about it is to try to meet as many people as possible, people that seem to inspire you–could be from all walks of life. It could be somebody in the government, the political field, someone doing nonprofit work, or even a church figure. Reach out to as many senior people, people that you admire, people whose work seems really cool. Reach out exactly like how you did. Say, “I’m a new graduate. I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do with my career. I’m really inspired by what you’ve done. Can I set up 30 minutes with you to talk about what you do, what you like about it, what advice you have, etc.?” It’s shocking how few people do this. I know it’s potentially a little scary. You’re reaching out to people who you don’t even know. 

Personalize a note, find them on LinkedIn, or social media, or email, and just send them a note. It’s actually surprising. I took a look at your note. And I was like, “You know what, it’s half an hour of my time. If I could help somebody, I think about it as just paying it forward.” I think a lot of people who’ve had some success in their life are very happy to pay it forward and try to help young people figure out what they want to do, because I think we were all there when we graduated.

On a personal note: I’ll add that my success rate with my cold emails to these founders is about 5-10%, which Kevin noted was within expectations. That’s not to discourage anyone from emailing, but to set realistic expectations as to the response rate. If your response rate is better than mine, I’d love to hear what you’re doing so I can copy you!

ON BEING ASIAN

At Asian Hustle Network, our one recurring question is: “how has being Asian qualified your experience as a founder?”, here is Kevin’s response:

I think about it all the time. I didn’t grow up in an Asian community. I grew up in a very small, rural community. So it was a lot of white and Hispanic folks, and I didn’t really have any Asian restaurants in my town. There were only two other Asian kids in my high school. When I was a kid, I thought it was weird that I was Asian. I looked different from people, ate different food than other people, and my parents didn’t speak English as fluently. I tried to blend in and not really focus on it. Then I went to college at Berkeley. There, I found a lot of friends and felt like I fit in a lot more. As a founder, it’s again, thrust into an environment with very few Asians as CEOs. There are a lot of Asians in technical roles. I think I’ve been incredibly successful. Lately, there have been more and more Asian founders, but there’s not as much of a cohesiveness around it as much as, for example, the Indian founder community is very tight. The Pakistani community is very tight. There are a lot of other ethnic communities that are founders that I think are tighter.

I had recently talked to Bryant Chou from Webflow, and his method of approaching this was to take a colorblind approach when it came to business. I mentioned to Kevin that his approach seemed the opposite of Bryant’s:

I definitely feel differently about it. I’m doing business with a lot of people. In general, when I’m doing business, I’m working with all different types of people. But in terms of people that I want to help out, it’s very natural that I’m more likely to say yes to an interview or try to help somebody else out if I see a little bit of myself in them. Ethnicity helps. I’ve done a lot of business in Asia, including having a 300 person office in China and starting an esports company called Gen.G, which is based in Seoul, Korea. 

Going to Asia, it’s a huge advantage to speak the language and understand some of the cultural aspects. I think about how I can take advantage of the good parts of being an Asian founder and entrepreneur, and then there are probably times where it’s a net negative, and I try to mitigate those as much as possible. 

For example, during COVID, there was a big group of Taiwanese American entrepreneurs, like Steve Chen from YouTube, and Kevin Lin from Twitch, and Jameson Hsu. We decided to go to Taiwan during COVID. There are lots of times where we’re celebrating Chinese New Year together, and just like Chinese New Year events that you go to, and you meet a bunch of other founders. Having kids and a family, I spend a lot of time just enjoying meeting people from those cultural events. 

Pulling on this thread, I asked Kevin what kinds of detriments he felt Asians faced:

I don’t think there’s as much of a detriment anymore. I would say in 2006, I was incredibly lucky that I was a VC. When I joined investment banking, there were like two other Asians in my hundred person office. And in all of the venture industry, there were maybe 10 Asians (circa 2005). How many CEOs were successful, CEOs of companies that were Asian, you had Jensen who ran Nvidia and that’s about it. There were just not many Asians. You think about all the .com companies, all of the e-commerce companies that were started in the late nineties and in that era of the technology world. It’s hard to think of many Asians. I would say Jerry Yang comes to mind.

Although he wasn’t the CEO initially, back then it was really hard to be a CEO who was Asian and trying to pitch to someone who’s generally not Asian. The investors do a lot of pattern matching. For example, they might think, “These kids are from MIT. That’s a good pattern match. I’m interested.” While nobody’s explicitly saying, “I don’t want to fund a woman or someone of a certain ethnicity,” they’re just pattern matching. They’re taking lots of meetings and they might think, “Something’s a little off about this one.” Think about it, how many CEOs have been Asian? It was a lot harder, but today there are a lot more, which is good. I think it’s less of an issue today. On the positive side, a lot of Asian founders get credit for being smart, being technologists, and for hustling. I don’t think it’s much of a detriment anymore the way it was 20 years ago. That’s good for the better in that regard. 

Going off his comment on the lack of Asian CEOs, I asked him what kinds of things he practiced or studied to overcome the additional headwinds he faced:

If you want to be a CEO, everyone has different perspectives on this. My perspective, especially in the context of the Asian Hustle Network, is that one of the Asian stereotypes is that they’re quiet, smart, and they work really hard, but they don’t know how to get out there. They don’t know how to sell or get deals done. So, I think being a good communicator and developing your own leadership style in a way that is authoritative, compelling, and authentic is important. Everyone has their own way of doing this, but there is a certain projection or pattern match of somebody who is going to be a good CEO. As a founder, you’ve got to be someone who can overcome obstacles, regardless of your ethnicity or gender. You have to be good at running through walls. Being good at sales, being able to get your ideas across in a compelling way, these are all incredibly important. These days you can do that via a variety of means. It doesn’t have to all be in person. 

FUNDRAISING 

I have some friends who are looking to raise a pre-seed round for their startup. But they were having some difficulty as they weren’t located in the Bay Area and didn’t have existing connections to angel investors. I wanted to see if Kevin had any advice for people in their position:

It’s definitely a lot easier if you’re from Stanford, MIT, Cal, or other top programs with a technical background. If you’re not from that, my biggest advice is to move to San Francisco or New York. If this is what you want to do, you have to do it right. If you wanted to be an actor or be in show business, you would go to New York or Los Angeles. That’s where everything is. The various angel investors, seed investors, and larger institutional investors are primarily in these two markets. I would say the Bay area still tops, but New York is a very close second these days. It’s much easier if you go out, attend some of the easier events, meet some people, spend some time networking, and then get invited to other events. You start meeting investors, figure out what events they are going to, go there and meet them, and talk to them about your ideas. There’s no substitute for meeting somebody face to face and talking.

Kevin later added a few additional thoughts:

As a young entrepreneur, there are two ways to build a company. The way I did it was through luck. I raised half a million dollars for my first round in 2006, which wasn’t a lot of money. We were incredibly frugal and had enough money to pivot a few times. This is a harder way to do it because it involves a lot of networking to find investors. I was fortunate to have spent two and a half years as a VC in the industry, so I knew a lot of VCs. My own firm and a few others were willing to write me a check, but I chose the firm I used to work with because they offered better terms. However, the best way to build a startup is raising a few hundred thousand dollars, around $200,000. Those types of deals are easier to get. Ideally, you can even avoid raising anything because what you can do is get a few friends together who are technical and build the thing, launch it, and get some success. Then raise money. It’s much easier raising money once you’ve built something than when it’s just a story.

When I say I’ve been pitched hundreds of Gen AI startups, I would say 80% of those pitches did not build anything yet. A lot of those emails start with, “I’m looking for pre-seed funding and here’s what I’m looking to try to do.” I generally don’t even read those emails. And I think a lot of other investors don’t either at this point. So if you haven’t met the team, if the team doesn’t have a really good background in exactly the area that they’re tackling, it’s an easy archive email. 

Whenever somebody built something and emailed me, “Here’s a link to the thing I built,” or “Here’s a video of the thing working,” I generally take the time to go take a look at it because I’m always interested in what’s new. I’ll take way more meetings with somebody who’s built something. 

And there you have it! Just building something and getting a few users will put you ahead of most pitches.

TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF AS A FOUNDER

The last question I asked Kevin was how he dealt with the emotional toll that being a CEO takes.

You have to have either a community or a relationship. Besides parental relationship, some meaningful relationship in your life that is going to ground you through the tough times, because without that, it’s just so easy to slip into that place. These days, it’s much more normal to talk about the importance of mental health. Mental health, emotional health is incredibly important. I think it’s all rooted in physical health, too. It’s really hard to run a startup if you’re not physically healthy. If you’re not physically healthy, that also drags down your emotional and mental health. So I think physical health is actually the very base of the pyramid.

From SoulCycles to sports, for example, I highly recommend a book that has been really helpful for me. It’s a book called Younger Next Year. This book came out, I think, over two decades ago. I recommend it to everyone. You don’t even have to read the book. The very basic thing to do is strength training two times a week, and then try to do some cardio exercises, another three to four days a week. So basically spend five or six days a week being physically active, with two of those days being strength. Exercise and eat reasonably okay. That is my number one advice to people with a stressful lifestyle. Having a grounding of physical health is super important. 

Then we get to the question that you started with, which is emotional health. Emotionally, mentally, it is incredibly important to have a community and to have a relationship that you care about. I know all this sounds like, “How am I going to do all this stressful stuff in your life?” But the whole point is, if you’re going to run a marathon, you have to pace yourself. The number one thing that I find is, if time permits, have something that you like doing. Ideally, that’s something that ties into physical health, because that way, you kill two birds with one stone. Whether it’s hiking, or a sport or something else, do things that you enjoy a few hours a week, because otherwise, you’ll just burn yourself out. So physical health, relationships for mental health, and then do some play every week.

I asked Kevin what exercises he tends to do and mentioned that I do mostly cardio:

Strength training is the number one thing that I recommend for everyone. That can come with all sorts of different things like circuit training, some sort of boot camps. It doesn’t have to be super intense, you’re not looking to necessarily get ripped and get a six pack. It’s just strength training, kind of a total body core strength training. Find something that you like that gives you energy, it could be a class, it could be one on one, it could be doing videos, something that you enjoy. Strength training doesn’t have to be a chore, it should be reasonably fun. On the cardio side, I love playing tennis, and lately pickleball. That’s what I do most of the time. On the weekends, I’m generally hiking, because I like spending time in nature with my family. 

There’s a website called Bay Area Hiker, or BA Hiker, I think. It has all sorts of great hikes that are all ranked by community. You can search by area and city. We like driving out to Half Moon Bay. Near the ocean, there’s a ton of great hikes along the one freeway. If you drive south from San Francisco, as you get towards Pacifica, there’s a lot of great hiking trails that take you above the one freeway. You get a gorgeous view of the ocean and the waves coming in. It’s just beautiful.

SHOUTOUTS 

If you like mobile games, check out Bored Button, a free mobile game where you can earn valuable loyalty points–made by one of Kevin’s companies. Bored Button is available to download on the Apple App Store, Google Play Store, and the Amazon App Store.

Thank you Kevin for speaking with us!

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In order to produce environmentally friendly household goods such as tissues and wipes, Singaporeans Angela Sim and Lynn Yeo, the founders of Cloversoft, invested in bamboo trees as the material of choice. 

Bamboos were discovered to be the fastest-growing plants in the study, so they decided to cultivate them. Furthermore, unbleached bamboo does not contain any chemicals, which contributes to its sustainability.

Angela and Lynn founded Cloversoft in September 2014, and both are passionate about producing safe and environmentally friendly consumer goods. They became close friends while working at a bank for several years before launching their business. Lynn’s lifelong passion is recycling and green projects, whereas Angela strongly cares for animals.

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Coversoft’s long-term objective is to build the most successful fast-moving consumer goods (FMCG) company in Singapore, with offices around the world, centered on the core values of providing products that are affordable, environmentally friendly, and derived from plants.

Lack of business experience made learning tough at first. There was no demand for their eco-friendly goods, and other corporations repeatedly turned them down. Angela admitted,  “This was one of the darkest moments in our entrepreneurship journey”.  

Fortunately, consumers now publicly acknowledge their items and frequently purchase their green products  Word-of-mouth and consumer feedback helped them quickly spread the word, and their sales grew 1,500% in one year.

They’ve also donated a portion of their revenues to Polar Bears International in Canada to help protect the polar bear population.

Cloversoft’s first year of business saw strong sales and rising client bases in Asia Pacific countries. The firm aims to become the largest FMCG company headquartered in Singapore, with branches throughout the world, by delivering safe, environmentally friendly, and fairly priced plant-based products.

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Combining sweet cream with the sharp zing of coriander, this gelato flavor apparently converted over 80% of coriander haters who tried it, as per Eat Book Singapore.

Bryan Liew launched his dessert cafe LoFi Bar at the height of the pandemic, with no prior F&B experience except being a Foodpanda rider.

According to Vulcan Post, Bryan’s purpose behind launching his cafe was simple: to fulfill Singaporeans ‘ habit of “eating and hunting for food ” during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

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Teen Brothers Build Non-Profit To Empower Underprivileged Kids Through Educational And Enrichment Programs

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They speak to youth groups to inspire young kids and were invited on TV in local morning shows Good Day Sacramento, and Fox40 News. On top of that, they manage to keep up with the Honors Program in school, and extracurricular activities. 

Good Day Sacramento, a local morning show, in July 2019

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Back to School Program in Antique, Philippines 2021

Ethan and Dylan shared with Asian Hustle Network their journey as early founders, advice to their peers and future generations, and their hopes to find a mentor to help them grow toward their goals.

13-year-old Ethan runs with their school Cross Country and Track Team, while 16-year-old Dylan is in the Cyber Patriots, a cybersecurity club in school where they compete with other schools nationwide. 

Since their launch, the brothers have been in at least 5-7 big events every year — with Elk Grove Giant Pumpkin Festival as the biggest, which attracts more than 60,000 people every year.

The Young and Simple Legendaries

Ethan: Hi, my name is Ethan Black. I’m the CEO of Legenade Children’s Fund. I’m 13 years old, going into 8th grade. I like running, like Cross Country and Track. I like to hang out with friends, and also be on the computer playing games. 

Dylan: My name is Dylan Black (16 years old) and I’m a junior at Franklin High School. My interests lie in finance, business, and engineering. 

Dylan (right) and Ethan (right) With Elk Grove City Councilmember, Stephanie Nguyen
Dylan and Ethan at Taste of Elk Grove in 2017

How It All Started

Ethan:  Legenade started with a business called Ethan’s Legenade that I started when I was about 7 years old. It means “Legendary Lemonade”. I met another local nonprofit through my mom, and I decided I wanted to help them so I made Ethan’s Legenade and sold lemonade. I gave 50% of the profit that came from Ethan’s Legenade to the local nonprofit. After doing that for about 3-4 years, my grandma helped us turn it into a nonprofit which is known today as Legenade Children’s Fund. 

Dylan: My brother wanted to help a charity owned by a friend of ours. To help that charity, he decided to open a lemonade stand and donate 50% of the profits. We attended small events and sold lemonade there, and that’s how we made our initial profits and we expanded from there into other sorts of events. 

Ethan’s very first event – Summer Concert in Elk Grove May 2016
Chicks in Crisis is the charity that Ethan wanted to help in the beginning. So he sold lemonade and donated half his earnings to them. He still supports them to this day.

Legenade’s Big Vision, Mission, and Goal

Ethan: Our motto is “Helping Kids Become Legendary”, which basically means helping them so they can be the best they can be. We mainly focus on children’s education through 5 different programs. Our goal is to help kids and communities all around the world. 

5 Legenade’s Programs are: Back to School Program, Future Legends Scholarship, Color the World Project, STEAM Programs, and Community Outreach

Dylan: I would like our nonprofit to have a well-established local and international presence to help kids with the education of all forms. That’s my goal, that’s my vision, that’s my mission. 

Achievements and Learnings

Ethan:  A few years back in 2019, we got Rookie Business of the Year from the Elk Grove Chamber of Commerce for being the best new business. I guess another achievement is actually turning into a nonprofit, coming from Ethan’s Legenade to becoming an official nonprofit. I’ve learned more about how to run a business. I was probably naive about how to run one when I was first starting out when I was 7. I’m more careful about making decisions. I’ve learned how kids live in other countries. 

Receiving the “Rookie Business of the Year 2019” award presented by the Elk Grove Chamber of Commerce. Dylan and Ethan are the youngest entrepreneurs in their city.

Whenever I heard stories about the Philippines, it was always worse than the life that we have here, so we shouldn’t take stuff for granted. You’d think that stories like that are exaggerated, but from the photos I’ve seen, it’s not. Their conditions are not ideal. So for example, we ship out toy cars, the ones you pull back to wind up and let go. Then we realized that they can’t play with them because they don’t even have concrete. Their houses are built on dirt. We learned to pay more attention to their living conditions and what they need so we can send them the proper help. 

Dylan: Our biggest achievement would probably be becoming an official nonprofit because it allows us to coordinate and organize resources to give to our donation recipients. Another one of our biggest achievements is the number of people we have helped. We’ve helped several thousands of people in some way, shape, or form. I’ve learned that I really like business and finance, and most likely do that in the future as a career. I’ve also learned that people can accomplish a lot and all they need is a little push from an outside force, maybe in the form of a donation. 

Legenade’s Current Project 

Ethan: Right now, school is about to start so we’re focused on the Back to School Program. We provide backpacks and school supplies to about 1000 students in multiple locations in the Philippines. We have Future Legends Scholarship where we sponsor gifted students and pay for their tuition fees so they can stay in school. A lot of them leave school so they can work to help their families. We help them finish high school at least. Closer to the holidays, we do community outreach locally here in Elk Grove, and Christmas Programs in the Philippines, and send toys and food to the kids and their families. 

Community Outreach Food Program – Anao and Mexico, Pampanga, Philippines.

Dylan: My current project is expanding our sphere of influence to reach more people with advertising and campaigns. Also to get our Legenade bottled at a bottling facility in high numbers so we can get them in vending machines and stores. Relying on donations from people means that the people we are helping are at the mercy of your kindness. When you sell a product, we can more reliably help people. We are grateful to our donors, but it’s better to be self-sufficient so our programs can be consistently well funded. 

The Founders’ Hope For Legenade 10 Years From Now

Ethan: I’d like to see Legenade 10 years from now being one of the biggest nonprofits in America, maybe in the Top 10 charities. We also want to help in more places internationally and nationally so instead of just here in Elk Grove, CA, maybe we can find people to help in all 50 states. Also internationally, instead of just in the Philippines, we can help somewhere else in Asia, Africa, or Southern America. We also want to visit our programs in the Philippines and meet the kids we’re helping. We can’t afford that right now so they just send us pictures and videos.  

Dylan: I hope that in 10 years, Legenade will have helped many people go to school and get credentials from high school, and even college. Also, be able to help more areas and not just have focused efforts in a couple of cities, but in many places. Education is important because it helps you make good decisions and helps you help other people and it lifts everybody up. I can’t help people if I don’t have an education. 

Advice To Young Generation

Ethan: I don’t want to sound generic. Do not wait, or like, don’t procrastinate. If you have an idea and you know it’s good, then go for it. Even if it turns out to be bad, then you can classify that as a learning experience. 

Dylan: Your plans don’t have to be big and grandiose. You can start off small and can go from there. Don’t overwhelm yourself by trying to reach huge goals, just spread it up into several smaller goals. And don’t let anything stress you out. Avoid things that stress you out. 

Raising money during the pandemic. May 2021

Seeking Entrepreneurs and Mentorship

Dylan:  Our goal is to get Legenade bottled. I’m hoping to reach out to other entrepreneurs who have gone through the process, and are willing to share what they’ve learned with us.

Ethan: We’re trying to get into mass producing our Legenade, but we have very little experience in doing so. We’re trying to collect as many contacts who can help us make it happen. Of course, we always need donations to keep our programs going. Please consider sharing your blessings. Any amount will help a lot.

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Vohra was an experienced ghostwriter and copywriter from an agency, which inspired her to establish her marketing.

When the 21-year-old growth hacker attempted to launch Skilbank, it was initially conceived as a growth marketing training program geared toward newly established technology businesses. She first started the organization during the pandemic in 2019 and aspired to train a workforce that could soon fill entry-level positions in marketing. 

She has also established relationships with her business partners, who are her primary motivation in maintaining a healthy balance within the company and developing productive plans. 

Even though the pandemic has made people jobless, Vohra had the chance to build up the organization to help service workers upskill and gain employment. Skillbank was able to raise $1.5 million thanks to the support of investors like Jason Calacanis, Hawke Media Ventures, Soma Capital, Hustle Fund Champion Hill Labs, Transcend Network, John Kobs, Nelson Wang, Saunder Schroeder, Zack Bloom, and TikTok’s own Josh Richards and Griffin Johnson.

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Skillbank just closed a funding round that helped numerous marketers make a career change and, as a result, increase their remuneration. Vohra also has designs for growing SkillBank’s business. At this time, a subscription to SkillBank’s courses starts at $4999, or $7199 if paid in installments. The SkillBank team may be small at the moment, but they have big plans to take on industry leaders like Masterclass and General Assembly.

Nothing can prevent anyone from becoming successful; even a student who quit school and later decided she wanted to devote her life to assisting others in achieving their goals can turn her dreams into a reality.

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